Cost of Design

[Susan Gallagher]

We charge a fairly low fee for design as its our way for pitching for the work. Its around £500-£900 for a full design (including a full land survey by a land surveyor) including VAT. I have heard of some design only companies doing designs for £3000 plus...would like to know what you guys charge...

[Philip Voice]

Hi Susan

This is an interesting subject.

I would charge for designing a garden if I was asked to provide that specific service.

I would charge no more than £300 plus Vat if I was also being asked to price for the build and offer that cost back as an incentive if we were successful in winning the work.

I always encouraged the client to get three quotes.

[Susan Gallagher]

I have refunded it on occasion myself - if I am asked to! What sort of budgets are your gardens then?

[Philip Voice]

Well, I just write about landscaping and gardening now. I sold my company in 2004.

The average price was about 15,000 with the one customer spending £250,000 in 18 months.

The second largest client spent £70,000 but we did small jobs too which came down to several hundred pounds.

[Susan Gallagher]

Philip Questions - what was the optimum number of employees for you? and what sort of weekly turnover did you have? How long would a 15k garden take you?

and what made you set up landscape juice when there are other sites that do the same job? what do you want to do thats differnt from those such as Graden Network? (going to mention this one to the folks there).

[Philip Voice]

We had 16 employees at our height.

The largest maintenance contract was £150k pa with £30k of extras.

I cannot remember the exact amount for the best year but considering that the company is still in existence, I think I should keep that quiet.

I started Landscape Juice to keep me active and with a view to earn a living one day from something I did all my working life. I believe, and it is others to agree or disagree with this, but I feel I deliver Landscape Juice in a different way to other sites. Can you point me in the direction of a similar UK site so that I can compare?

Well your last question :-0)) You wont tell them my strategy will you lol ;)

Someone told me this week that my site is different to TGN. They felt that TGN was just a competition to make as many friends as possible, give away free advice with no real discussions.

I would like LJN to provide a really atmosphere between the trade and consumer that breaks down the 'them and us' barrier, provide business advice (as I do on LJ blog) and encourage and help newcomers into the industry to succeed.

I wanted to be a part of TGN but I was banned which for me smacks of a big brother attitude which I will not do.

Any forum should be about freedom (provided it is not personal and abusive or over advertorial)

Every one who joins here gets a personal message and I read everyhting that is written.

I have telephoned members and spoken personally about their business and aspirations and I am filled daily with optimism. I enjoy what I do too which helps me remain passionate about horticulture.

I also want to see a few wrongs righted and industry professionals or organisations that have lost the will and the way to change the record and move with the times.

Thanks for your questions and feel free ask anymore.

And to make one thing clear, I am no different to anyone here, I have trod the difficult path and made huge mistakes and lost money on jobs.

I am not superhuman but I do have many years of experiences to share.

All the best


Phil

[Susan Gallagher]

Ok maybe I can regrame the question. What would you expect a reasonable turnover would be for 4 employees ?

why were you banned Phil???

[Susan Gallagher]

meant 'reframe' nor regrame

[Philip Voice]

I think I have been banned because I dared to use the network for the reason is was designed.

I offered my opinion and I think, until all of my posts were removed, I backed this up where possible.

I think that they have made a mistake - they (and the same for me) will never gain total market control - if that is their aim.

There is room for many sites like mine or theirs and I am a business working in horticulture just the same as the landscapers, gardeners and designers.

To exclude anyone, for any reasons other than personal abuse or fould language is unacceptable for me.

If a gardener, landscaper or designer came onto this site and said to me, I do not like the way this is run, I do not like the functionality, I do not like this or that I would never remove their post.

As far as t/over is concerned - difficult one.

4 salaries (dpending on ability.

Main man - £25 - 30k?? - Skilled
Second man £18 - 22k?? - Skilled but less experienced
Labour 1 - Experienced £15-18K
Labour 2 - odd jobber £12-15K

£70-85k Plus national insurance and tax cont. plus 30%???

So 4 men will cost you £91-110k divided by 2000 hours = £1,800 - 2,200 just to pay their wages.

Without working out all the other costs or profit and taking a real stab at it, I would hazard a guess that you will need to be charging at least £1,000 per man per week and then adding individual cost of sales.

How close am I to the wage bands I estimate above?

I produced some simple posts about how I view charge out rates and estimating the costs to your own business here.
http://www.landscapejuice.com/business_advice.html